Curse

Gun Pierson · Jul 23, 2009, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

You don't.

Fortunately it's a small issue, since 7 heroes is far from a need.

That's where we differ, you think in terms of needs, while I see it as an opportunity to satisfy the majority of the playerbase. In this case it would give more fun in PvE.

A need is more fit for a competitive environment like PvP, but in the end also in function of fun. For example, it's a need that an imbalance gets fixed as it's no fun to get beaten by imbalanced crap time and time again.

There are many things that are a need that didn't get fixed yet, that's no excuse however to not implement a popular feature.

For example, it wasn't really a need to have more storage, we got used to the way things were for many years. Nevertheless, it was a wanted feature and the bags themselves were welcomed by the playerbase.

Scary · Jul 23, 2009, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

That's where we differ, you think in terms of needs, while I see it as an opportunity to satisfy the majority of the playerbase. In this case it would give more fun in PvE.A need is more fit for a competitive environment like PvP, but in the end also in function of fun. For example, it's a need that an imbalance gets fixed as it's no fun to get beaten by imbalanced crap time and time again.

There are many things that are a need that didn't get fixed yet, that's no excuse however to not implement a popular feature.

For example, it wasn't really a need to have more storage, we got used to the way things were for many years. Nevertheless, it was a wanted feature and the bags themselves were welcomed by the playerbase.

Indeed, its not what we need. But it would be bring so much more fun to the
game,,, experiment with al kinds of builds etc. Glamouring weapons and armors. A zoo of pets etc.

O men It is what we need.. Couse it would be fun, and a game should be fun.

Sry I was so wrong of what we need

Highlander Of Alba · Jul 23, 2009, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

You don't.

Fortunately it's a small issue, since 7 heroes is far from a need.

Then answer this/

Was extra panes a need or new names hairstyles ect...no

So you cant use the word need as for heros and say need was rqd to change hairstyles ect.

Its just that like myself yes i can go on dual and get 6 but all guys are aking for is the ability not need to use a full group of heros.
I was ina pug to-day (to see what the current situation was )and every guy wanted to do it there way ..i went with the flow and really a little disapointed on people trying to gell to-gether

No probs with guildies or friends but a Random pug it throws up a lot of personality probs

BlackSephir · Jul 23, 2009, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

If you have read this thread

I HAVE read this thread and participated in it, thanks very much for the concern. No one ever managed to think of an argument against 7 heroes that wasn't instantly destroyed.

Yawgmoth · Jul 23, 2009, 11:50 PM // 23:50

*Wrong way is wrong.

If you want a solo game wtf are you doing in gw?
They should be going in an exactly opposite direction - encourage MULTIPLAYER activities!
The number 1 most needed thing for PvE is a Global Party Search.

*Bad poll is bad.

People will ALWAYS vote for things that make their game easier or give them freebies.
The majority NEVER cares about the overall quality of the game when they can get an 'easy mode' button or some free items/cash.
Listening to the majority is often a BIG mistake! It's exactly thee same as with IMBA skills and builds. The vocal majority doesn't care about having the game well balanced as a whole, they just want to keep their farming as easy as pressing 1,2,3,4.

BlackSephir · Jul 24, 2009, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Here we go again, it's like I'm in 07 again!

Quote:

If you want a solo game wtf are you doing in gw?

I WAS playing it, not any more because there's nothing left to do, at least with 3 heroes. And no, gw isn't a social experiment, it doesn't and shouldn't force you to play with others and be happy about it.

Quote:

They should be going in an exactly opposite direction - encourage MULTIPLAYER activities!

Jolly good! Any ideas how to decrease stupidity of your typical gw player and increase his skill?
No?
Oh well.

Quote:

People will ALWAYS vote for things that make their game easier or give them freebies.

Because 7 heroes are more powerful than 7 players with pve skills, consumables etc, right?

Quote:

The majority NEVER cares about the overall quality of the game when they can get an 'easy mode' button or some free items/cash.

Except having 7 heroes isn't an "easy button"- it's a "convenience button".
Huge difference, I wouldn't be surprised if you wouldn't get it.

Quote:

Listening to the majority is often a BIG mistake! It's exactly thee same as with IMBA skills and builds. The vocal majority doesn't care about having the game well balanced as a whole, they just want to keep their farming as easy as pressing 1,2,3,4.

What's this, jumping out with balance now? How is 7 heroes imba but 7 people are perfectly balanced?

Yawgmoth · Jul 24, 2009, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Learn to read. I've never said 7 heroes is easy mode or imbalanced.

But it doesn't change the fact it actually WOULD make the game easier for the solo players!
We all know most of the game in HM *CAN* be done with 3heroes+4hench and it's not hard to imagine how much easier would that be with 7heroes.
In effect players who occassionally pug because they fail with henchies would pug less, players who pug pretty often would also solo much more if they just could, so there would surely be less pugs overall.

and that is WRONG WAY.

Bryant Again · Jul 24, 2009, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highlander Of Alba

Then answer this/

Was extra panes a need or new names hairstyles ect...no

So you cant use the word need as for heros and say need was rqd to change hairstyles ect.

Its just that like myself yes i can go on dual and get 6 but all guys are aking for is the ability not need to use a full group of heros.
I was ina pug to-day (to see what the current situation was )and every guy wanted to do it there way ..i went with the flow and really a little disapointed on people trying to gell to-gether

No probs with guildies or friends but a Random pug it throws up a lot of personality probs

We certainly didn't "need" hairstylists, name changes, or extra panes, that much is true.

But the thing about those is that they're all completely cosmetic.

Not so much for 4 more heroes. The changes of implementing them are a bit different.

byteme! · Jul 24, 2009, 08:03 AM // 08:03

If Anet implements 7 heroes. They are going to make us pay real money for each hero even though it'll be account wide. You know it.

BlackSephir · Jul 24, 2009, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Learn to read. I've never said 7 heroes is easy mode or imbalanced.

Yes, you merely compared having 7 heroes to easy mode and imba. You're such a clever guy.

Quote:

But it doesn't change the fact it actually WOULD make the game easier for the solo players!

Gee, if having 7 heroes would make the game too easy for solo players then I can only imagine how easy the game is for group players, with 8 people.

Quote:

We all know most of the game in HM *CAN* be done with 3heroes+4hench and it's not hard to imagine how much easier would that be with 7heroes.

And we all know that most of the game in HM *CAN* be done with you having only 6 skills.

Quote:

In effect players who occassionally pug because they fail with henchies would pug less, players who pug pretty often would also solo much more if they just could, so there would surely be less pugs overall.

I never pug, 7 heroes don't force people to abandon pugs, your "arguments" are old, inane and pathetic.
Read the thread from the very beginning and you'll find people spewing bs just like you. And getting shot down, too.

Shasgaliel · Jul 24, 2009, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

I never pug, 7 heroes don't force people to abandon pugs, your "arguments" are old, inane and pathetic.
Read the thread from the very beginning and you'll find people spewing bs just like you. And getting shot down, too.

You forget about the group of people who are forced to PUG now but might be perfectly on their own with 7 heroes. Several of those people posted in this thread so they do exist. So there will be reduced pugging possibility and there is no doubt about it. The question is whether it has marginal impact or not. In my opinion it is now marginal. However some still think it is not.

Another one is that people still tend to group at the early stages of the game till they get heroes unlocked. It can be noticed also for players with proph only (yes they do exist have some in my guild). They get into groups just because some guys with 3 heroes are not able to do ring of fire missions. With 7 heroes in game those guys will be on their own more or less. There is less and less of those guys out there but still. Therefore you cant just say that there is no arguments against 7 heroes and nobody will remain unharmed. With 7 heroes some people would just quit since their tiny pugging possibilities will be reduced even more. Most of us can do perfectly well with 3 heroes so we are not forced to group therefore we do not see those other people unless we have them in the guild or alliance. The question is if those affected are small enough in numbers. Now I think they are but I cant be sure actually.

BlackSephir · Jul 24, 2009, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

You forget about the group of people who are forced to PUG now but might be perfectly on their own with 7 heroes.

Forcing people = bad
Giving an option = good
Of course pugs will be reduced. They will be reduced because people who'll go with 7 heroes don't want to pug. Maybe if GW playerbase wasn't stupid as hell and running shitty builds then things would be different but vast majority of pugs are so terrible they make my balls itch.

Lishy · Jul 24, 2009, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

They will be reduced because people who'll go with 7 heroes don't want to pug.

You hit the nail on the head.
I'm sure even Anet knows that this is what a majority of players want. And I'm sure gw2 will be adjusted around solo play as well.

Coverticus · Jul 24, 2009, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

I never pug, 7 heroes don't force people to abandon pugs, your "arguments" are old, inane and pathetic.
Read the thread from the very beginning and you'll find people spewing bs just like you. And getting shot down, too.

And this is the issue within this thread I'm afraid. On the one hand, we have people (like Yawgmoth) trying to put their point across that 7 heroes will effectively destroy what is left of PuGs and getting lambasted for not falling in line with the "I want 7 heroes, sod anyone else" mentality - which is what the quote basically stating.

7 heroes WILL make the game easier for the solo player, sorry but it will. And as I have said in posts here, 7 heroes will become a macro haven and the likes, basically allowing a player to just turn on the "auto pilot" button, kick back and watch the match as it were. Human nature being what it is will always say "give me the easiest option to get something done". This is precisely what the case will be in GW. Those who still want a challenge (if indeed it still exists in game) will refrain from using all the heroes available so thats fine. But for those enjoying the gaming experience with others, this feature would kill what is left - just as having 3 heroes started the slide originally. The more challenging areas (Urgoz, Deep, DOA etc) become non-existent unless you can find a guild still doing these areas. So while one set of people get what they want, another area suffers.

I STILL don't mind whether ANet decide to consider/implement this feature but I think, as with many people, this is not a solution to a dead game. But, considering the player base as it stands now, adding this is more than likely going to become inevitable. Good luck in getting this feature peeps sooner rather than later.

BlackSephir · Jul 24, 2009, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Jim

And this is the issue within this thread I'm afraid. On the one hand, we have people (like Yawgmoth) trying to put their point across that 7 heroes will effectively destroy what is left of PuGs and getting lambasted for not falling in line with the "I want 7 heroes, sod anyone else" mentality - which is what the quote basically stating.

So, I have to be forced to pug because otherwise pugs will fall apart?
I don't give a rat's ass about pugs, never did, never will. Pugs consist mainly of shitty 10 year old players who run the most ridiculous builds ever created. Give me a single good reason as to why I should be forced to play with them.

And yeah, screw everyone else. People who want 7 heroes don't force others to use them. People who are against "because my precious pugs will be destroyed"? Yeah, they are forcing their playstyle.

Quote:

7 heroes WILL make the game easier for the solo player, sorry but it will.

Why the hell do I need to repeat myself?

"Gee, if having 7 heroes would make the game too easy for solo players then I can only imagine how easy the game is for group players, with 8 people."
Add PvE skills, consumables.

Quote:

7 heroes will become a macro haven and the likes, basically allowing a player to just turn on the "auto pilot" button, kick back and watch the match as it were.

Because this isn't already doable with human players.
Come back when your argument doesn't revolve around "heroes are better than humans".

Bryant Again · Jul 24, 2009, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Jim

7 heroes WILL make the game easier for the solo player, sorry but it will. And as I have said in posts here, 7 heroes will become a macro haven and the likes, basically allowing a player to just turn on the "auto pilot" button, kick back and watch the match as it were.

This isn't a whole lot different from playing the game with people. Skill in Guild Wars relies heavily on build configuration and very little on anything else. The point of note is that builds are very easy to copy (PvXwiki), allowing "skill" to be easy to simulated.

Coverticus · Jul 24, 2009, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Wow BlackSephir, do you ever get out the right side of the bed?

All through my posts in this thread I have tried to be as neutral as possible, since I can see both the For and Against arguments on this subject.

Therefore my turn:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

So, I have to be forced to pug because otherwise pugs will fall apart?
I don't give a rat's ass about pugs, never did, never will. Pugs consist mainly of shitty 10 year old players who run the most ridiculous builds ever created. Give me a single good reason as to why I should be forced to play with them.

And yeah, screw everyone else. People who want 7 heroes don't force others to use them. People who are against "because my precious pugs will be destroyed"? Yeah, they are forcing their playstyle.

I agree that the average age and mentality has lessened over the years in Guild Wars, the maturity levels being a problem quite a lot.

But why is it these so called 10 year olds run shitty builds? GW has moved from players slowly understanding the mechanics of the game (i.e. the learning curve) so that they can indeed (in theory) come up with reasonable builds. What maybe a good build in one person's opinion may not be a good build in another's too. This argument has been going since Day 1 of GW!
The game (and general player base) no longer caters for teaching these fundamentals, it is now focussed on, well, titles mainly.

And ANet will always try and cater for the majority (if it can) without destroying certain aspects of the game that have ALWAYS been in place. And PUGS (like them or loathe them) are a part of the game. And for those who enjoy this aspect of the game, they lose out (as have been said many times in this thread admittedly). Co-Op basically exists no more. And this is why I think ANet will say no - they will not want this part of the game to die.

If you hate PUGs, that is fine. A lot do (I for one do too before you noose me on that one). Mhenlo and co are always happy to help in times of need after all, ANet maybe giving one more hero to a player would be highly beneficial but still keep the structure in place as it were. That I could see ANet doing in all fairness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Why the hell do I need to repeat myself?

"Gee, if having 7 heroes would make the game too easy for solo players then I can only imagine how easy the game is for group players, with 8 people."
Add PvE skills, consumables.

Consumables are immaterial in your argument since the main ones are available to Humans, Heroes and Hench alike.

Hmm, a team of 8 people making it easy usually will require co-ordination and understanding to make it work that way. Something that admittedly is becoming non-existent in GW (outside of guilds). And it also involves thinking too.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

This isn't a whole lot different from playing the game with people. Skill in Guild Wars relies heavily on build configuration and very little on anything else. The point of note is that builds are very easy to copy (PvXwiki), allowing "skill" to be easy to simulated.

Very true, there is very little difference due to templates and PVX making CAP builds available to the masses. The only skill really is a basic understanding of how to use the build and which buttons to press. And maybe a little thing called communication skills come into play, otherwise little else to be different with.

Anyway peeps, good luck on the remainder of this thread - I hope ANet pick up on some of the ideas within this as there is certainly food for thought.

Improvavel · Jul 24, 2009, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Really, FUN is what important in a game.

In PvP fun also needs to go with balance of opportunities for both contenders, since it is also competition.

PvE, regardless of what some say, isn't a competition - until there is a rank of players it will never be.

There is no rank of players - so fun is it is the major point.

Anet made loads of mistakes by trying to balance drops and whatnot - nowadays drops are the most imbalanced ever - SC DROPS SIMPLY OVERWHELM ANY OTHER KIND OF PLAY.

Increase drops for real teamplay (not those SC which is 8 people playing alone in the same map or close) and add options for the players. 7 heroes is nice, especially because 6 heroes is already possible even for a single player.

Bryant Again · Jul 24, 2009, 04:05 PM // 16:05

It's a shame fun is subjective, oy?

Improvavel · Jul 24, 2009, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

It's a shame fun is subjective, oy?

Exactly.

But if my fun doesn't interferes with yours, what is the problem?

So lets say you like X genre of film and and I like genre Y.

And you get pissed because now your cinema also shows genre Y and so I don't have to go watch genre X.